Religion doesn't really help dealing with the real world

I just finished watching the movie, "The Tree of Life."  While the movie lasts a long time and some parts of it tend to get slow and tedious, I did gain one new observation from it; probably not the one which was intended, however.  While watching and listening to all of the pleas for God to help, to explain 'why', to give comfort, it occurred to me that religion really doesn't prepare a person to deal with the real world.  Many people say that religion gives comfort in times of need, but I'm not really sure that's the case.

The movie dealt with a mother losing her young son (about 15 years old).  It never says how the son died, probably because that doesn't really matter to the story.  The mother undergoes extreme grief, of course, and turns to her religion, and thus to God, for explanation of "why my son?", and "why now?" Of course God never answers, which leaves the mother to wonder, "do you even care about us?" and "do you even know what happens down here?"  Of course, God never answers those questions either.  Eventually, at the end of the film, the mother gives in and tries to find some solace in "giving my son to you, as you want."

When we're young, religion gives us the feeling that someone is looking over us, which can be very comforting to some while being very threatening to others.  We eventually come to find solace, and even companionship, in a God who "watches over us" and who also seems to "know what's best" for us.  I maintain, however, that this is an erroneous view of the world and thus leads to trouble later.

When we're young, and first learning about life and religion, we're told that we should care about our fellow mankind, we should always do what's right, we should not lie, we should not cheat, we should not fight, etc.  However, just a little later in life, we are told that we should learn to look out for ourself, we should do what's in our best interest, we should not tell the whole truth in all cases, we should do whatever we can to get ahead, and we should take up for ourself and fight back.  It seems as if the "real world" is diametrically opposed to what we're taught via religion!  This creates uncertainly, doubt, fear, and generally gives rise to the whole idea of "sin" in which we continuously view ourself as "not perfect."  Religions have, of course, learned to make a huge amount of money off of these problems!

I see no reason to teach children to "be good" based upon some unrealistic, religiously based, ideas, which will only lead them to struggle with the conflict between the world "as religion would have it", and the real world "as it really exists."  Why can't we teach our children to live in the real world, as it really exists, and still to be good citizens?  Why can't we teach our children that treating others in "good" and "helpful" and "kind" fashion will only serve to help create the type of world in which they, themselves, would like to live?  If you treat those around you in a kind and helpful way, then they will treat you in a kind and helpful way in return; at least most of the time.  As Buddhism would say, "you create your world, every minute of every day."

We should teach children that, yes, they should be kind to their fellow mankind when that person is not being mean to them, they should always do what's right in the larger scheme of things, they should not lie unless lying will help the situation, they should generally not cheat unless they are being cheated in return or if it's for a good cause, and they should not seek a fight however they should be willing to defend themselves.  We should teach children that there is no one out their looking out for them, so they should be careful and look out for themselves.  We should teach children that, no, their loves one will not go to a magical place in the sky and they will never see them again after death, so they should appreciate their loves ones today, let them know they are loved, and learn well the lessons they can teach, because once they're gone, those lessons will be forever lost unless someone remembers them.  (This is why I refuse to remove birthdays, anniversaries, and other information about deceased friends.  They were a part of my life and I don't want to forget them and the lessons they taught.  This is their only lasting legacy.)

By learning how to understand and deal with the real world, we will be better prepared to deal with exceptional circumstances in this world.  Doing so is much better than the empty, non-existent, and thus unresponsive, God of religion, who offers only empty promises and who only "delivers" answers via the questioner's reinterpretation of whatever random events happen.  Don't depend upon religion to give you any real answers at all.  Learn more about how the world really works, understand more about your own emotional reactions to it, and there will be all of the answers you could want.

Chaos Theory says that "Free Will" is a moot issue.

"Free Will!"  Sounds so good, doesn't it?  Everyone wants to think that they have complete control over their thoughts and actions.  Sorry, no.

Scientists have found that using an fMRI, they can actually see a decision being made long before the person making that decision recognizes that they have made it.  Ok, maybe that doesn't mean you don't have Free Will.  maybe it simply means your thoughts are being made at a level below where you realize it and only later do they arrive at a conscious level.

How about the argument which says:

You are the sum total of all of your genes plus all of your experiences.  If you could start again with the same genes and have the exact same events happen to you, you would end up in the same place and make the same decisions.

Interesting argument, but can this ever really happen?  Is this even a realistic scenario?  Certainly not.  We know that the exact same series of events can never happen exactly the same way, especially if they are complex events.

This ties into Quantum Physics and Indeterminacy.  If you haven't learned much about Quantum Physics, then watch this entertaining video about the famous "Double Slit experiment.  This talks about particles appearing as both waves and particles.  Related to this is also the topic of "Super Position", where a particle or wave can be in multiple states at once.  As if this isn't enough, let's also look at the issues brought up by "Delayed Choice".

So, with multiple possibilities existing simultaneously, can we ever really know the complete state of a system, enough to really predict the outcome, especially a system, such as the brain, made up of billions and billions of neurons?  Well, this actually should make you think of "Chaos Theory".  Here's a video showing how even a very simple system of two pendulums will produce what appears to be "random motion".  Notice that even a small change in the initial position of 1 degree will produce a wildly different result!  Here's a video of a real world example of the same experiment.

So, what have we learned?

1. The brain is performing actions, creating thoughts, and reacting to both itself and the outside world in ways about which you can not have any knowledge.
2. At the most basic level, all of nature is made of probabilities, not particles.  These probabilities can interact with each other in unpredictable ways.
3. Chaos theory shows us that even the smallest change in initial conditions can make even simple, Newtonian, systems perform in unpredictable ways.  If this is true of even simple systems, then we are incapable of imagining the complexity of any "real world" system.  (This is, incidentally, why even today, with very powerful super-computers, we still can not predict weather very reliably.)

So, when you take all of this into account, do we really even need to discuss the topic of "Free Will" any more?  No, you don't really have "Free Will".  Everything you think or do is completely a result of the starting conditions of your brain, followed by all of the events and thoughts which came before the action.  But, does it matter?  NO!  It doesn't matter at all, because there is no way that you or anyone else could ever reliably predict any outcome, even if the entire series of events were known and all of the connections inside your brain were known.  The organ which is contemplating "Free Will" is such a complex system, based upon other incredibly complex systems, and ultimately fabricated out of probability functions, such that for all practical purposes, it may as well be "Free Will".

The "Free Will" discussion is ultimately seen as a senseless discussion by those who understand more of the ways in which the world actually works.  To even have such a discussion, is to admit that you have no idea of the complexity of the world.  Now we understand more about Quantum Physics and Chaos Theory, we can clearly see that the "Free Will" discussion is entire moot.

Definition of Agnostic, Atheist, etc.

A friend of mine recently stated what I'm sure many others have also heard, "I'm not a Theist or Atheist.  I'm Agnostic."  Many people seem to equate "Agnostic" with "Undecided" and they think this is a safe place to be, because it puts them beyond the entire discussion.  Well, it's simply not true.  Let's investigate these terms.

Looking at my Dictionary program, I see:

gnostic |ˈnästik|

adjective

of or relating to knowledge, esp. esoteric mystical knowledge.

• ( Gnostic )of or relating to Gnosticism.

noun( Gnostic )

an adherent of Gnosticism.

ORIGIN late 16th cent. (as a noun): via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek gnōstikos, from gnōstos ‘known’ (related to gignōskein ‘know’).

So, a "Gnostic" is someone who has knowledge, especially of the mystical type.  The word comes from the Greek word "to know".  Relating to a "God" claim, a "Gnostic" is someone who thinks they know; i.e., someone thinks such knowledge is possible.

Ok, so what's "Agnostic"?

agnostic |agˈnästik|

noun

a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

adjective

of or relating to agnostics or agnosticism.

• (in a nonreligious context) having a doubtful or noncommittal attitude toward something: until now I've been fairly agnostic about electoral reform.

ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: from a-¹‘not’ + gnostic.

An "Agnostic" is the opposite of a "Gnostic".  With respect to the "God" claim, an Agnostic" is someone who thinks that "nothing is known or can be known"; i.e., they do not believe that anyone can know either way.  So, it now becomes somewhat clear why a person may equate "Agnostic" with "Undecided".  An "Agnostic" would say, "I do not think it's possible to know whether or not a God exists," thus they are remaining undecided on the matter.

But to say, "I do not think it's possible to know," is not the same thing as saying, "I'm remaining undecided."  It's actually possible to make up your own, personal, mind on the topic, to the best of your knowledge, even in the face of no evidence one way or the other, and I maintain that just about everyone has already done so many times.  For example, how many modern adults remain completely undecided with respect to the existence of Faires?  Most sane people have decided that Fairies do not exist, but they do not have any firm proof this is in the case.  It could be the case that all Fairies simply have a method of making themselves invisible to all humans such that you can't detect them.  Regardless of this possibility, most sane people have made a decision on the matter, even though they would have to admit that they are really "Agnostic" on the existence of Fairies; this is, they would have to admit that they really really believe "nothing is known or can be known" on the topic.

Scientists and people well versed in Logic would tell us that "one can never prove a negative."  There really could be an ancient Chinese teapot in order around Saturn.  You can not prove that there isn't.  You also probably can't prove that there is.  Thus, all people must be "Agnostic" about an negative proposition.  All we can ever say about, "X does not exist," is, "The statement can not be proven or disproven, thus we are Agnostic on the topic."

"Fine, but I'll never be an 'Atheist'!  Saying that God doesn't exist is simply too strong of a statement and, besides, you can't prove that anything doesn't exist."  Very true, but what, exactly, does an "Atheist" think?  Does an "Atheist" believe God does not exist?"  That is, obviously, not a very rational position, as has been shown above.

Let's investigate this term, "Atheist."  What does the dictionary say?

atheist |ˈāTHēˌist|

noun

a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods: he is a committed atheist.

So, an "Atheist" is not a person who believes God does not exist.  The definition doesn't say that.  The definition simply says that an "Atheist" lacks a belief in God.  In other words, an "Atheist" somehow lacks this "belief in God" which others seem to have.  The "Athest" isn't saying that "God does not exist," they are simply saying that regardless of the question of existence or nonexistence, they lack a belief in that God.  By comparison, a "Theist" does have a belief in God.

So, we can now create a matrix of all possibilities:

	Gnostic	Agnostic
Theist	Gnostic Theist	Agnostic Theist
Atheist	Gnostic Atheist	Agnostic Atheist

I would maintain that most so-called, "Theists," are actually "Agnostic Theists."  That is, they would gladly and readily admit that they can not prove the existence of God.  After all, most Christians would maintain that if God could be proven, then there would be no need for faith.  That is an "agnostic" position.  However, while readily admitting that God can not be proven, they also have a belief in God, which is what makes them a "Theist".

I would further maintain that most so-called, "Atheists," are actually "Agnostic Atheists."  After all, recognizing that the existence or non-existence of God can not be shown is central to the definition of what most people mean when they say, "God."  For most people, God, if he/she exists, is outside of this universe (how can God create something of which he/she is already a part?), and as such can not be  demonstrated using knowledge which is part of this universe.  Being "Agnostic Atheist," is really the only possible, rational, version of "Athiest," since it recognizes that non-existence can never be proven.

For the most part, we're all "Agnostic."  Saying you're "Agnostic" doesn't really say anything more than, "I don't think anyone can really know for sure," but most rational people would admit this is true from the outset.  The question, which still remains unanswered, is whether or not you, personally, have a believe in God, even though he/she can't be proven.  You can't use the term, "Agnostic," to side-step the real question.  Either you have a belief in God ("Theist"), or you don't have such a belief ("Atheist").

If you "don't really go along with all of that God stuff," then you're "Atheist" and you'll have to admit it and become comfortable with it.  "Atheists" can be good people, especially if they're "Secular Humanists!"

More on Atheism+ and Secular Humanism

Having just read Greta's post about Atheism+, I have some responses and comments on the issue.  Yes, my previous post basically stated that I didn't see any difference between Atheism+ and Secular Humanism, but now that I've read Greta's clear statement of her view of the differences, I think I'm seeing things a little differently.

Let me first address definitions.  Right up front, she says:

Several people who are more familiar with humanism than I am have informed me that Christian Humanism is not, in fact, humanism, and that a basic principle of humanism is non-theism. I stand corrected.

Well, I think she's listening to several uninformed people.  Let me try to set things straight.  "Humanism" simply means a focus on what is best for humans, here and now.  Anyone can be "Humanist" and still have some other-worldly "religious" views as well.  Thus, there are "Christian Humanists".  There are definitely "Jewish Humanists" (but that gets into the whole issue of how Jews view God a little differently from everyone else - a fascinating topic, but not one for now).  Any religion can have a "focus on humans" aspect and thus have a "Humanism" version.  "Secular Humanism" is a focus on humans in a totally secular (i.e., non-religious) fashion, thus it's the one which Atheism+ is most like.  It's true that the term, "Humanist," has come to mean the same as "Secular Humanism," so anyone who says they are "Humanist" is usually also declaring a non-belief in God.  It's true, also, that some religious forms of "Humanism" seem rather strange.  "Christian Humanism" seems odd because Christianity is all about a focus on Christ, God, and the after-life, so how can it also be focused on humans here and now?  Just doesn't make a lot of sense without modifying the idea of Christianity, at least a little.  So, going forward I think we can assume that when we say "Humanist," we mean "Secular Humanism," and thus are declaring a world view without God.  For convenience, I think we can also agree that "Humanism" refers to the same thing, at least in this post.

Next, Greta states the primary differences between "Humanism" and "Atheism+".

"Humanism, on the other hand, is generally perceived as more diplomatic. More easy-going."

"The word “atheism” is clear. ...  The word “humanism” isn’t nearly as well-understood. Lots of people don’t even know what it means."

"And then there’s the matter of public perception, and public understanding."

And this is actually one of my major points.  "Humanism" isn't clear.  That's true and it's a very convenient truth.  Because "Humanism" isn't clear to people, and "Secular Humanism" as well, it means that people can't bring any preconceived notions to the discussion.  The time you say, "Atheism+", many (most?) people can immediately think they have a good idea what that is (Some type of super-Atheism which tries to convert people?  Atheism along with other evil ideas which I really don't want to know about?  Atheism on steroids!)  At this point, they don't feel the need to investigate or question.  They think they know, thus they do know, in their mind.

"Secular Humanism," on the other hand pushes people off center.  They're confronted with something they absolutely don't understand.  They can't possibly have preconceived notions, because they have to admit to themself that they really have no idea!  Just a few weeks ago, I responded to a friend's Facebook post saying, "You sound as though you may be a Secular Humanist."  Their response was, "Really?  I don't know what that is.  I'll have to investigate it."  I then followed up with pointers to the American Humanist Association web site, which led to my pointing her toward the Humanist Manifesto, something with which a lot people agree without even knowing it.  (I say I'm "Atheist" when I'm being visited by Jehovah's Witnesses, at which point they immediately say, "Ok, have a good day," and leave!  It has worked every time so far without fail.  I think they've been taught to just leave if they encounter "Atheists" because there's no hope for such people!)

I'll mention here that Greta's next comment re. Humanist organizations was totally "on the money":

"Many humanist groups are overwhelmingly made up of older, middle-class, college educated white men"

This is so totally true of the local Humanist organization here in Santa Barbara, that they do not seem interested in reaching out to younger people at all!  I'm forced to choose between an organization run by people who could be my parents (and who didn't even know who Mr Deity was, even though they had invited him to talk!), or an organization at my local college which is quite active, "in your face," and fun, however I could be their parent!  "Secular Humanism" seems to be the Atheism of older people and "Atheism+" is the "Secular Humanism" of the younger generation.

So, I think the biggest difference between "Atheism+" and "Secular Humanism" is really mostly a matter of focus.  In the same way that a scene can appear quite different depending upon the source of the light and the position of the camera, "Secular Humanism" and "Atheism+" are different views of the same scene, each bring into focus different aspects while glossing over, or leaving in shadows, other aspects.  Each has their advantages and disadvantages.  "Atheism+" is good for being "in your face," current news, active in the world, and generally trying to make things happen.  "Secular Humanism" is good for being a more gentle approach with which many people already agree, however they just don't know it.  Each has their place.  When talking to a more progressive, younger, person, who may feel as though they're searching for a way to "make their mark on the world," the term "Atheism+" is definitely the way to go.  When talking to a more conservative, older person, who is somewhat secure in their social situation but feels as though religion really isn't helping them, "Secular Humanism" would be more appropriate.

I'll take them both and I'll use them each in their appropriate place.  There isn't any one way toward freedom from religion.  Each person has to come to an understanding in their own way and in their own time.  The best we, as Atheists, can do is to make sure we're there to help when they're ready for some answers.  "Atheism+" is definitely a good movement and I'm totally behind it.  Just recognize that "Atheism+" and "Secular Humanism" are two different views of the same larger scene of learning to live life, in the world, with others, and realizing that ultimately all of the rules must come from us, not God.

Atheism+

So, what's with the new "Atheism+" thing?  Some like the idea and some don't think we should be messing with their word.  Me, I always thought "Atheism+" was simply a way of saying, "Atheism plus a little something else positive".  You see, "Atheist" isn't really a positive word.  It's not a positive statement.  It's actually a very negative statement.  It's saying, "I lack a belief in God."  That's talking about something you don't have.  Let's talk about something you do have instead.  Let's talk about some love and concern for your fellow humans.  Let's talk about the fact that since you don't believe any "God" will be looking out for you or anyone else, then what does it take to build a world in which we can all live together and flourish?  What kind of a world should we have?  What would it take to get there?

This is where "Humanism" steps in.  Secular Humanism (more properly) looks at what type of world we humans could have and how to attain it.  Since "God" isn't going to just pat us on the head, give us toys for our birthdays, and drive us to the park, we need to provide our own paradise.  We're willing to work hard for it because we think it's actually attainable, right here, right now.  What would it be like?  Well, we would treat others with at least a little love and understanding.  That seems like a good idea, since most conflicts stem from misunderstandings.  We would try to help other people, because everyone can use a little help now and then, including you.  In short, we would treat others in somewhat the same way as we would treat a loved member of our own family.  (Yes, I know some family members can be treated somewhat badly, which is why I included "loved" in that statement.)

So Humanism says, "We don't believe in any 'God', so we think we should work toward creating a nice, loving, supportive, world right here, right now.  Let's all act toward others as more religious people would expect their 'God' to act toward them.  In short, let's be our own 'God' to each other."

That's definitely positive, but is it "Atheism+"?  Well, I think it's basically what "Atheism+" is trying to be.  I think "Atheism+" is trying to recognize that you don't change peoples' minds by yelling at them.  You don't change peoples' minds by cutting them down and insinuating that they're stupid.  Actually, most of the time, you just don't change peoples' minds.  Period.  People change their own mind, and they way they come to such a change is by thinking about things.  The thing that gets them thinking is not by someone attacking their closely held beliefs.  People get to thinking when they hear or read something which pushes their understanding just a little, to a slightly uncomfortable zone.  Not too uncomfortable, or they will reject it outright.  Just a little uncomfortable.

How does a person get "pushed" just a little while still feeling somewhat "safe"?  Many times it's by over hearing.  This is why blogs and forums are most important that debates and confrontations.  People are reading a blog or a forum voluntarily.  They can stop whenever they begin to feel threatened.  They over hear maybe one or two little things which don't sit well with them, or maybe which explain something they misunderstood before, then they go away.  But...  they're still thinking about it...  and it starts to weigh on them...  so they return to the blog or forum and read some more...  A year later, they're making the same arguments to someone else!

This is what I think of when I think of "Atheism+", or "Humanism."  Just act as an example of you would like to see from others.  Let people come to their own understanding in their own time.  They will.  The world is gradually becoming more and more secular and more and more Humanist.  (This, incidentally, is why so many religious people are scared.  They know this is happening.)  If we, Atheists, can be friendly, supportive, and most importantly inclusive, then we are something that no religion can touch!  Religions can't be inclusive.  They're exclusive by nature.  We, Atheists, know what it's like to be persecuted.  Let's not wish that on anyone else.  Let's be different.  Let's be what religions can't.  That's "Atheism, plus more."  That's "Atheism, in a positive way."  That's "Humanism," and it's a powerful thing.

Religionists, you can't touch this!  :)

A walk on the wild side

(I originally wrote this quite a few years back, but having recently read Greta's blog "Fashion Friday: Menswear, and Some Thoughts Anout Gender Roles" made me think that I really should put this back up, so here it is.)

I recently tried a little experiment.  I created an account inside the 3D role playing game "Second Life", however instead of creating a male avatar, I decided to try out my "second life" by experiencing the other side.  My avatar was female.  Interestingly, this opened up a whole new world immediately.  I decided that if I were to have a female avatar, I may as well have a good looking one!  I spent a lot of time tweaking with the visual appearance of my avatar and then started searching for nice clothes.  I found myself going to shopping malls inside the "game", looking at all of the dresses, trying things on, and even looking at matching shoes!  Why the sudden change?  Why the sudden interest in fashion when I never searched out such things before?  Well, maybe that's a topic for another blog entry at some point.  Personally, I think it has a lot to do with, "since I could be beautiful, I felt as though I should," or something like that.

The topic of this entry, however, is related to other parts of my experience.  I noticed, very quickly, that male avatars were drawn to me.  As a matter of fact, if there was a male avatar anywhere around, I could pretty much bet that they would at least try to talk to me.  I must say, I found it annoying!  I couldn't go anywhere, do anything, without guys trying to hit on me!  And what did they want?  A good conversation?  Nope.  They wanted "Second Life" sex.  (Yes, there are places you can go in "Second Life" where two avatars can be moved in such a way as to make it appear as though they're having sex.)  Why do so many guys seem to want this?  Ok, I know what you're thinking.  You're wondering if I let my avatar have sex with a guy.  No, I didn't.  That just seemed wrong in so many ways.  As a matter of fact, I found myself doing exactly what women do a lot.  I found myself hanging out with the girls because at least I knew I wouldn't be targeted for one single-minded purpose.

So, having experienced a little "life as a woman", I can tell you other guys a thing or two about it.  Women want to do other things than just have sex.  They want to pursue their intellectual interests.  They want to experience life.  They want to have a good conversation, have an interesting experience, and they don't want to be pursued by guys everywhere they turn!  (Of course, when it comes down to it, guys don't always want sex either.  No, really!  Sometimes they want to go for bike ride, read really good book, play a great video game, do some programming.  Really, guys don't think about sex all of the time.  But when they see a beautiful woman, thoughts do go right there; it's built in.)

Girls enjoy looking beautiful and, let's face it, guys want them to look beautiful.  However, just because they're beautiful, or even sexy, doesn't mean they want to have sex with any guy who just happens along.  Maybe they're busy learning about a future world.  Maybe they're learning how to create their own buildings.  Maybe they're building their own buildings.  Maybe they're just reading an interesting article in a magazine.  If some guy comes along who has similar interests and if we can work both together, then maybe things will develop, but it's also possible that the woman isn't interested in starting a conversation at all and simply wants to be left alone!

I finally realized that if I wanted to investigate the "Second Life" world without being bothered, I needed to select an avatar which was totally un-gendered.  I purchased a small blue sphere.  That works quite well!  I wonder what would happen if I started a conversation as a woman and then suddenly changed to a man?  :)

Are Atheists missing the point?

Alright, I need to just write this down and get it out there because I'm not sure how long it'll be before I'm able to write something completely clear, coherent, and complete on the topic. Here goes... 

Are Atheists missing the point? I'm a regular listener of "The Atheist Experience". I've been listening to it for years now and find it both entertaining and informative. After you've been listening for a while, it becomes more of a "Gilligan's Island" experience; since you've seen/heard it all before, you now see how long it takes for you to remember what happens! I've often thought it would be interesting to simply write up all of the arguments against "god" (I don't feel I need to capitalize the title of egomaniacle, genocidal, homophobes), give each argument a number, and then simply reply to each caller with, "number 15", "number 23", etc. We keep hearing the same arguments for and against god over and over again. As the Lotus Sutra clearly states, a person has to come to understanding in their own time, in their own way. (Read it, if you haven't.) 

I came across an interview many months ago... heck, it was probably more than a year ago now, and I wish I knew who it was. Anyway, the person's primary point was that if you think religion is all about having a good reason for believing in god, having a "proof" for god, etc., then you're missing the point. The point of religion is not to show that there's this "God" person out there somewhere who answers prayers, etc. The point of religion is simply to draw a person's awareness and understanding out of the mundane world, out of their own petty little "issues", and instead focus on something greater, something beyond yourself. If you can focus on something outside of your world, outside of your understanding even, then you can escape whatever bad things may be happening, you can escape from a limited view, and instead embrace something greater than yourself, your community, even your planet. Religion gives you a sense of awe and wonder; we've all heard that before. But it also gives you something greater than yourself to believe in. He went so far as to say that even if we knew that "God" didn't exist, there would be still be a place for religion. 

So, when believers try to come up with some "good" reason for believing in a "God" who is loving, kind, and looks after them, they're really doing it because they feel they need to in order to fight back against this "Atheist" thing, which is trying to "destroy all that's sacred". We atheists would ask, "why do you need anything to be sacred?" Well, they need it not because they need the religion, not because they need their "God" so much, more simply because they need to feel a connection to something bigger than their own life. They feel as though "Atheism" is trying to take away that connection to something bigger and it makes them defensive. 

Of course, most Atheists have probably already dealt with this. We're human also and being such, we're primarily social creatures. We also have this need to feel connected to something bigger than just us. (Some more than others, obviously.) Some of us have moved to Humanism as a way to feel a connection to the rest of Humanity. That's certainly a cause outside of ourselves. Others have latched onto Science, and in particular Astronomy, as a way to feel connected to the rest of the universe. (We're all "star stuff" after all, as Carl Sagan was famous for saying.) These are all ways to feel the "sense of awe", yes, but also to give one's life "meaning and purpose." 

So, once we have broken all of the arguments for God, once we have made believers think enough to realize that they really have no basis for the foundation of their life thus far, with what shall we leave them? Now that they have no connection to a creator of the universe, they have no vision of something greater than their own miserable little existence, where shall they get the connection to something bigger? We, as humans, need this. We must get it from somewhere, or else we start asking questions such as, "what is there to live for?", "is this all there is?" 

I'm not saying that we should stop pulling the rug out from under believers. If a person never takes that first step, then the journey will never be started. Coming back to the Lotus Sutra, we all need an Upaguru sometimes. However, we Atheists should be careful, while we're pushing that believer off the cliff, to prove the parachute which we know they'll need. We need to find out where that person gets their sense of inspiration. In what way to they feel that connection to something greater, something outside of their own life. Then provide them with a more reasonable, solid, rational, way to receive that same feeling of "this is where I belong", "this is why I'm here." 

Remember that Theism and Atheism isn't just about logical arguments for or against "God". The real reason for Religion, is to provide that link to something outside of normal life, that link to the infinite. We all need that.